Question ??

[Ol Salty2K]

Has anyone heard of Deltec European Protein Skimmers ?
Also, has anyone heard of RowaPhos ?

I understand that these two products are revolutionizing reef keeping in Europe ??

[Chuck S]

Never heard of them but searching the internet I saw them. They are a very cheap skimmer and look to be the same construction wise as well. Turbofloaters are 3 times the price of these skimmers and over here a turbofloater skimmer is a cheapy?? The good skimmers are ETS and AQUA-C to name a few.

Rowaphos is sold over here. It is a chemical media in a bag that needs to be kept wet. I have never held any high opinions of these types of material and they in my opinion have marginal results. The price is rather high as well. Water changes are the best way to handle these issues and generally least expensive. But here is a link,

http://www.northcoastmarines.com/rowaphos.htm

[broadwave]

Salty,

You and your skimmer questions.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nerd.gif

[bluereef]

Deltec skimmer are one of the most expensive skimmer at the market(I dont have a clue where Omegatron find his informations)and one of the most eficient.They are all piece of art and IMO aqua c or similar skimmer can even come close to that skimers.LisaP from this board use on of the older model,do a litlle search and you will find his tank which are amazing.Here is the link to german shop who sell deltec equipment web page (http://www.sewatec.de/default.php?manufacturers_id=45&osCsid=1df0ff9c3af 93b5e6fb776af6633db81)

[Chuck S]

Bluereef,

I do not know about where you live but a picture is worth a thousand words. The first page when I search for Deltec skimmers has pictures and pricing. One can see from this link below

http://www.stm-shop.co.uk/category1_1.htm

Now the turbofloater is about the same cost of a deltec and from the picture of the deltec one can see that it is nothing more than the same construction of the cheap venturi skimmers seen here in the US. Almost every shop that sells these has the same pictures and the pricing structure is the same.

My information is based off these pages anyone can see and exactly as such very accurate. They are a cheap skimmer and nothing more than the construction of maybe a Big Mombasa or maybe a Red Sea Berlin Skimmer also in the same family as a Turbofloater at best. Now Deltec has a line of skimmers that look very good and are very expensive. However we can not even consider these for practical use since noone is going to spend a couple thousand dollars on a skimmer. I did a currency exchange and almost got sick. The skimmers most people would buy from Deltec would most likely be the AP series which are a knock off of the Turbofloater in Europe. Seems most places give pricing in Euro Dollars over there. So in the page I have marked one can see the Deltec comes to 231.00 US Dollars. We know you all pay a bit higher prices than us over here but I don't call 230 bucks high.

I still think the best bet for European Reefers that find the pricing of things over there a bit high is that if you have a friend over in the US you can get a ETS or an Aqua-C bought over here and have that friend ship it to you. I know I kinda do almost the same thing. I have a bad habit called smoking. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I buy my cigarettes for 13.50 a carton plus 2.00 bucks airmail shipping from Switzerland. Over here in the US they are 35.00 a carton because of our taxation of that item. I always try and take the cheap way out of things. If one can save money then that is the way to go.

[bluereef]

Deltec ap600 is their cheapest model and you make mistake comparing cheapest deltec model with one of the most expensive turboflotor model.Deltec ap600 is comparable with turboflotor 1000,and they have the same price(about 200 euro-200$).Model ap600 can be compared with aqua c urchin model,if we wont to compare this 2 company.
Regarding prices, 200-300$ is also very cheap for me(I import about 2000$ in miracle mud this year for my aquariums).
Deltec expensive models can be compared only with most expensive Euro reef models or RK2 models.

[bluereef]

I make mistake writing reply at your prevoius post where you say that deltec are 3 time cheaper,sorry.

[Chuck S]

Yes in my first post I made the mistake of comparing pricing of the different models. However for the sake of this discussion and the models Deltec has the AP SERIES are the only ones applicable here. The higher models that have a retail of 2500-2650 Euro dollars no one here would buy. I for one as well as others would not buy a skimmer for a couple thousand dollars. Their AP series is right in line with the turbofloater and it seems they have no middle of the road skimmers. It is either the AP or the higher end series. As far as what you import in miracle mud there are other ways around this. If you want me to purchase it for you and ship it to you I think that would save you 75 percent of the money easy. This is the point I am trying to make here. You all get raped severely. No one in the US would even think about buying a skimmer for that price. Now would we pay a couple thousand dollars a year in Miracle Mud. You know enough people here in the US. Contact one and make arrangments with someone you trust to be a go between and get your stuff cheaper. Say you buy 20 pounds of Miracle Mud for about 140.00 US. I do not think it would cost much for someone to ship it to you AIRMAIL. What kills you is when you need to ship livestock.

[bluereef]

And I had ETTS 750 evolution model,which I pay a loot and he need very exspensive pump(iwaki 50 I think).That was worst purchase in my life,turboflotor 1000 remove more waste then Etss.

[Chuck S]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif That is your personal perception. We all have our opinions. I actually prefer my Aqua-C EV series skimmer over others I have used. I have used a few as I have made the mistake of buying a few. I have 5 reefs currently running. I can tell you the best skimmer I have is a Big Mombasa from Marine Enterprises out of Baltimore,Maryland. This skimmer is only for smaller tanks under 75 gallons. But this skimmer pulls more gunk that most I have seen bigger and better. Now back to the topic. The common perception over here is that the turbofloater is a mid range skimmer.

The question in this thread was about the Deltec skimmers. Like I commented on is that their pricing is a bit our of reach for most people and applications. Most reefers will pay only a few hundred dollars for a good skimmer. This only leaves the AP series in consideration. When one looks they can see this skimmer is nothing special and by default I have seen DIY skimmers from Geo and Myreef that surpass the quality of this line. No one is going to pay a couple thousand dollars for a skimmer. One can start an entire reef tank for that cost ( tank, lighting and all ).

Hre is a Beckett style Skimmer that Geo makes. I think this surpasses the construction of the Deltec AP series easily

http://www.reeftalk.com/photos//501/2beckettgeo-med.jpg

[bluereef]

Shiping was most expensive part of MM,I buy about 100 pounds,and mm was shiped by air mail,but still was expensive.
Wayne Shang have Deltec expensive model(8000$??)but I agree with you,very small % of the American will buy that expensive models..

[Chuck S]

Exactly my point my friend. How in their right mind would pay that unless they were smoking something illegal /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Us Americans may be more financially stable than the rest of the world but we are very fickle on how we spend it. We try and get the best deal possible.

I feel ya on the shipping aspect however I think that shipping might be a bit cheaper for you with a friend versus a company. They tend to mark up shipping to make up money they lose on specials. I having a fedex account call companies on this all the time. They quote me a shipping charge and I go check it out. I do not deal with companies that over inflate their charges.

[bluereef]

This becket skimmers need very powerfull pumps(very exspensive)and they eat electricety(I always have problem with this word,how is correct /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif),that is maybe not problem in USA but in Europe is diferent story.Second most European reefer have all equipment under the stand,and tank is usually in dinning room.That is imposible to do with big becket skimmer due to size,noise and all hoses which are neded to conect that skimer.That is probably reason why is in Europe nedle wheel skimmers most popular,and they are very eficient.

[bluereef]

Sadly no one of my american friends cant acept american express card /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif.I dont need a skimmer but I need digital cameras and you have great prices in USA for that.But then is the problems with duty and taxes (almost 40%)so I must wait till some box of camera drop from the truck /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

[Chuck S]

Now we get into a more philosophical discussion.

Electricity is the correct spelling. You english is always quite good for someone foreign.

Most European Reefers also are more into Soft Corals and such. United States Reefers are into SPS corals more to a higher degree. This information is all over the message boards. Many discussions have been had over this one. I do know your electrical power is a bit different over there. I do not know what your costs are but as far as the beckett skimmers they are not all that big. They are no bigger than the ETS or Deltac high end skimmers I have seen online. As far as pumps the Iwasaki MD-50 is not high end. My Aqua-C runs off a MD-30. Now alot of skimmers like ETS and the like preform great with the MD-40. What circulation pumps do you all run. I know on my 120 I run a GRI-520 which is rated at 1500GPH at 6 foot of head. I could go even higher if I chose. I take it you all go for the slower flow style aquariums. However it is shown that Coral Reefs Aquariums need high flow to be healthy. Alot of soft corals and such can tolerate slower flow. I do know the fact that over 60-70 percent or more of all coral reef organisms are imported to the United States. That is a very large number when one has to consider the entire world. This was the latest number given by the USCRTF at its San Juan meeting in October.

[Chuck S]

If you have relative or friend ship you something do you still pay duty and taxes? Say if I ship you an old pump ( or anything this is an example) to your house via airmail. You have to pay duty and taxes?

[bluereef]

Sorry I dont wont to look like some philosoph here(Heck I am quite oposite,I dont wont send you my picture because I dont wont to scare you,but Iam rock n roll,hair half metter long /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif,street kid,corectly 34 years old kid).
In my 100 galons I have aqua medic 6500 lit/hours return pump and wait for new tunze turbelle stream pump to come ,tunze will have 8500 lit/hours,so total 15000lit/hours /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif,quite OK for sarcopithon.sinularia,few gorgonians and elegance /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
All that circulations with only 130 watt(more or less,must check),electricity(you save my life with this word,I was never be able to write this word corectly).
Regarding numbers of imports I think you are refer to thread in reef central?My only idea was to open some eyes and mind but in the end I become taliban /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif.

[bluereef]

[ QUOTE ]
If you have relative or friend ship you something do you still pay duty and taxes? Say if I ship you an old pump ( or anything this is an example) to your house via airmail. You have to pay duty and taxes? <hr /></blockquote>
More or less yes,packages must have invoice or something similar.But the worst part is that receive about 2-3 packages monthly and the custom persons think that I am some smugler.I have very funny conversations with them.

[Chuck S]

LOL smuggler. No philishophical discussions on how we care for our reef organisms are why these message boards are here. I like talking reefs and what makes them work. As far as statistics I was not refering to any message board but the actual organisation who did the study.

130 watts is good. Now I am also waiting for the Tunze stream pump as well to try out. Now I have Reef_tec device that works great on my 120. What I am pointing to in the difference in methodologies from east to west is that the same things that work for you would not work for most SPS tanks over here. I must have alot of flow to sustain my corals which is no where near the amount of laminar flow they recieve in the wild but works. Ideas are ideas. There are good and bad from both sides of the equation. People over here seem to keep organisms alot harder to keep than the Euroopean community in general care for. If I had a tank full of mushrooms and soft corals I could use smaller pumps as well. I could also use alot dimmer lighting than I use. However this is not the case. Just remember we all learn from each other. I like hearing from people oversees. It lends another perspective to the equation. Take the lighting aspect. Most European reefers that use metal halide use lower wattage as well. They would never think of using 400watt bulbs yet over here we use them readily. Dana Riddle and Sanjay Joshi's reports are used worldwide so even over in the European community they are starting to see that higher wattage lights ( PAR AND PPFD units ) do play a huge role in SPS care and alot needs to be considered. Lets take also the temperature issue. We could have a huge debate over the pros and cons here. However these types of discussions give people the knowledge they need to make informed decisions on the type of care needed for our tanks.

[bluereef]

[ QUOTE ]
. Just remember we all learn from each other. I like hearing from people oversees. It lends another perspective to the equation. <hr /></blockquote>
That is very smart,that is why we are here and the reason why I like this board.We need people from all over the world because we cant have expirience with everything.With changing idea we can much easyly come to the target(less coralls dead and natural destructions).
I will quit now because I again start to look philosophical /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif